# Upgrading Blackrock for more analog channels **URL:** \ **Category:** Support\ **Created:** [November 6, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://mworks.discourse.group/t/upgrading-blackrock-for-more-analog-channels/158 "2020-11-06T15:48:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cstawarz](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/mworks.discourse.group/cstawarz/32/3_2.png) [@cstawarz](https://mworks.discourse.group/u/cstawarz)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://mworks.discourse.group/t/upgrading-blackrock-for-more-analog-channels/158/1 "2020-11-06T15:48:53Z")
Hi Chris - Hope you’re well. Just wanted to run something by you quick. I’ve been talking to Blackrock about needing more than 3 analog channels on my recordings system for my optogenetics experiments (2 channels for eyelink and up to 4 channels for the laser). As you might remember, the goal will be to send all analog and digital events to blackrock and to use ViewPixx digital out as a time-stamping signal. Blackrock is happy to upgrade my new/unused low-end system for one that satisfies these criteria (for $20K extra). It’s a bit much - but I figure it will streamline our experiments and this is what startup funds are there for. But before I go ahead with this, I wanted to share the specs and ask a few questions. The upgraded system would have 32 neural channels in addition to the following: 16 channels of analog in 16 channels of analog out 4 channels of analog in 4 channels of analog out I think this will be enough for my needs - but I’ll be honest that I’m not entirely sure how MWorks will communicate with Blackrock. Will it be via the ViewPixx digital outputs (DB25 pin cable)? Or another way? Blackrock mentioned something about needing a “Network gigabit switch with Quality of Service (QUS)” to connect the MWorks computer to Blackrock - but I’ll admit that I’m not sure what that is! Is this some kind of ethernet-based connection? Would appreciate your input on this! Thanks! Yasmine ---
**Author:** ![cstawarz](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/mworks.discourse.group/cstawarz/32/3_2.png) [@cstawarz](https://mworks.discourse.group/u/cstawarz)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://mworks.discourse.group/t/upgrading-blackrock-for-more-analog-channels/158/2 "2020-11-06T16:06:15Z")
Correcting some typos in my last email: The upgraded Blackrock system would have 32 neural channels in addition to the following: 16 analog in, 16 digital in, 4 analog out, 4 digital out. ---
**Author:** ![cstawarz](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/mworks.discourse.group/cstawarz/32/3_2.png) [@cstawarz](https://mworks.discourse.group/u/cstawarz)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 4:57pm UTC](https://mworks.discourse.group/t/upgrading-blackrock-for-more-analog-channels/158/3 "2020-11-06T16:57:14Z")
Hi Yasmine, I’m not very familiar with Blackrock’s products, but it sounds like you’re replacing a [CerePlex Direct](https://www.blackrockmicro.com/neuroscience-research-products/neural-data-acquisition-systems/cereplex-direct-daq/) with a [Cerebus](https://www.blackrockmicro.com/neuroscience-research-products/neural-data-acquisition-systems/cerebus-daq-system/). Is that correct? > (2 channels for eyelink and up to 4 channels for the laser) Just curious: All the eye position data will already be saved to the MWorks event file. Although we haven’t implemented the laser interface yet, presumably the laser settings and trigger events will go to the event file, too. Do you want all this stuff to also be recorded by the Blackrock system just as a backup? Or are you sending it there so that it’s recorded on the same clock as the neural data? Or some other reason? (I’m not trying to critique your design, just understand it.) > I think this will be enough for my needs - but I’ll be honest that I’m not entirely sure how MWorks will communicate with Blackrock. Will it be via the ViewPixx digital outputs (DB25 pin cable)? Or another way? Yes, you’ll connect the digital output lines on the DB-25 connector to the digital inputs on the Blackrock system. On the Cerebus, it looks like the digital inputs are exposed via a DB-37 connector, so you’ll need some kind of adaptor in between to match output pins to input pins. > Blackrock mentioned something about needing a “Network gigabit switch with Quality of Service (QUS)” to connect the MWorks computer to Blackrock - but I’ll admit that I’m not sure what that is! Is this some kind of ethernet-based connection? I don’t think they understood that you’ll be running MWorks on a Mac. To control the Blackrock system, you’ll need a separate Windows PC (not included). The Cerebus product page says the PC should have a gigabit Ethernet port. I would think you could connect that port directly to the port on the Cerebus via an Ethernet cable, with no switch required, but maybe not. In any case, I think they made a point of this just because the CerePlex Direct connects to the Windows PC via USB, so if you’d already purchased a PC to work with it, you might not have gotten one with gigabit Ethernet. Cheers, Chris ---
**Author:** ![cstawarz](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/mworks.discourse.group/cstawarz/32/3_2.png) [@cstawarz](https://mworks.discourse.group/u/cstawarz)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://mworks.discourse.group/t/upgrading-blackrock-for-more-analog-channels/158/4 "2020-11-06T17:31:35Z")
Hi Chris - Always appreciate your input on this! I’m 100% open to design critiques. I’m not a pro at setting up rigs so always happy to hear about better ways to do things. Let me answer your few questions below. I’m also CCing Kian and Joey from Blackrock who have kindly agreed to be looped in to help out with these decisions. _I’m not very familiar with Blackrock’s products, but it sounds like you’re replacing a CerePlex Direct [https://www.blackrockmicro.com/neuroscience-research-products/neural-data-acquisition-systems/cereplex-direct-daq/](https://www.blackrockmicro.com/neuroscience-research-products/neural-data-acquisition-systems/cereplex-direct-daq/) with a Cerebus [https://www.blackrockmicro.com/neuroscience-research-products/neural-data-acquisition-systems/cerebus-daq-system/](https://www.blackrockmicro.com/neuroscience-research-products/neural-data-acquisition-systems/cerebus-daq-system/). Is that correct_ Yasmine: Correct! _Just curious: All the eye position data will already be saved to the MWorks event file. Although we haven’t implemented the laser interface yet, presumably the laser settings and trigger events will go to the event file, too. Do you want all this stuff to also be recorded by the Blackrock system just as a backup? Or are you sending it there so that it’s recorded on the same clock as the neural data? Or some other reason? (I’m not trying to critique your design, just understand it.)_ Yasmine: Yes - I need to save a time-stamped analog trace of the light pattern emitted by the laser diode along with the neural data for analysis later. I don’t think that having the digital events from MWorks is sufficient for two reasons: (1) the laser can have some non-linearities (especially in the case of fast/repeated stimulation) that we might not pick up otherwise – (2) the MWorks file might say that we’re triggering the laser but this unit could be malfunctioning or powered down and we wouldn’t know it! For this reason, as a postdoc, I’ve found it super useful to have an analog trace of the laser that is saved alongside the neural data. Finally, re: Eyelink inputs, my understanding is that MWorks is only getting digital Eyelink inputs – but it will be good to save the more accurate analog Eyelink inputs with the neural data (especially necessary for recording from early visual areas). _Yes, you’ll connect the digital output lines on the DB-25 connector to the digital inputs on the Blackrock system. On the Cerebus, it looks like the digital inputs are exposed via a DB-37 connector, so you’ll need some kind of adaptor in between to match output pins to input pins._ Yasmine: OK. @Kian and Joey: MWorks will communicate with Blackrock via the digital outputs of our ViewPixx monitor (DB25 cable). Any suggestions for how to make an appropriate adaptor for doing from DB25 to DB-37? And in this case, if MWorks is sending digital inputs to blackrock via the DB25 cable, then am I right that we will not need a QUS network gigabit switch??? Thanks everyone! Yasmine ---
**Author:** ![cstawarz](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/mworks.discourse.group/cstawarz/32/3_2.png) [@cstawarz](https://mworks.discourse.group/u/cstawarz)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://mworks.discourse.group/t/upgrading-blackrock-for-more-analog-channels/158/5 "2022-07-19T19:15:10Z")